Sealing the tub flange for tile: 3 methods - DIYTileGuy The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. Step 4: Place the Tile. That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Kerdi board vs. Membrane vs. Other for Shower - DIY Home Improvement Forum Best substrate for kerdi membrane - nsbu.treviso-aug.it Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. Do you have any pictures? We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. Hang the cement boar. All it takes is the right preparation. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. What is the proper substrate to use on tiled wall? Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. This flexible polyethylene layer is easy to install and can protect the tile from both cracking and moisture. Redgard is a similar product. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . . This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. Some being easier to work with than others. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. Problem with very thick cement board/ tile/bullnose edge, Steam Shower Slip Joint Detail - The secret is in the boarding stage. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Wedi vs. Kerdi Waterproof Membranes: Which Is Better? Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter-KERDI? Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? Make sure the floor is level in the shower. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. LONDON. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. liquid waterproofing (redgard) over durock cement board - bathroom Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. It only takes a minute to sign up. Install the drain adapter, if needed. Once the wall is prepped, use a primer that is compatible with the KERDI membrane so that it will properly adhere to the wall. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. x 60 in. Installation; As the GoBoard is very lightweight, it becomes easy to . Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. In . Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. Can you put Kerdi over cement board? - TipsFolder.com Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. Tile Backer Board Breakdown - DIYTileGuy ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. rev2023.3.3.43278. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. Why you use cement board? It worked well - just like wallpapering. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Like the example above. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. I trust it and have never had a callback. taping and prepping cement board for tile - Home Improvement Forum One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. Spacers are the next step. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. I still wet the walls first. Hardibacker is a VERY "thirsty" material that sucks the moisture out of the mortar VERY quickly and I don't like it. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? the cost of the tile job. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. I would get someone else. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Kerdi Questions and Answers - Kennedy Kitchens & Baths If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . I appreciate your help and your quick response. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. In the worst case, it's OK to cut the Kerdi, remove the damaged section, scrape up the thinset from the areas, and set a new piece of Kerdi. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. Schluter Ditra VS Cement Board (Which is better?) PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. The colour is different. Using Kerdi Schlueter membrane with cement board. - Houzz When installing KERDI with . By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. To line niche shelves, for instance. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. How to prep a shower for tile with Schluter Kerdi - TwoFeetFirst Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Welcome to the site. Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. Contact us: 888-472-4588 All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Can you put KERDI over regular drywall? - remodelormove.com First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. What do you mean it doesn't adhere? The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. Cut the shower tray to size. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. But a mortar bed does have advantages. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. We sponge water onto the cement board. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". Blocking should be constant across this area when openings are larger than your fist. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. Kerdi on shower curbs - JLC-Online Forums Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. Thanks to all for the feedback. Kerdi Membrane not sticking to cement board - John Bridge 3. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! DensShield is one common brand. On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. Can You Put RedGard On HardieBacker Board? - Next Modern Home One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. New England. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Best Cement Boards for the Shower - The Spruce Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . This will prevent water from entering from behind the membrane, and will provide a more secure waterproof layer. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. They are square. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? Maybe try another brand of thinset? Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Why is this the case? Fixing that is not that easy though. Kerdi Vs. RedGard (Compared) - Build It Fine Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. You are wise to use a cement board.
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