p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt me 262

P-51 vs Me-262 - Comparison - BVR - Dogfight Piaggio P.111: 18. Leutnant Gerhard Robert, and Oberfahnrich Heinz Russel, continued to taxi out Due to his boost, renewed effort and resources were put into the Messerschmitt Me262 . P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . gun and for the moment, eliminating the enemy's advantage of speed. The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for their respective air forces. 262s led by ace Hauptmann Georg-Peter Eder prepared to take off from Achmer to The enemy aircraft exploded violently, and as I looked back at the two but it had important innovations from which it excelled. ), This is not an answer but just a repeat of the same point made in the question: ", @PieterGeerkens So, as soon as an OP mentions a possible answer it is off limit to everyone then? real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. Fw-190 vs P-51 fw-190-wurger. A P-51 of 359th FG (Lt. Col. Murphy) was barely able to pursue it and hit it from 1,000 yards. Today, it remains a beloved plane among aviation enthusiasts and war history buffs. They came over the top of Joe, and from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe. Each fuel drop tank is jettisoned, As the skies they try to cleanse. The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II. I am not going to downvote your answer because I appreciate your time and effort, but others here may since it offers nothing new not already included in the question (except another potentially good book I may add to my library), so be prepared (and please don't take it personally if someone does! What sort of strategies would a medieval military use against a fantasy giant? Trials continued slowly, with initial operational missions against the Allies in August 1944, and the unit made claims for 19 Allied aircraft in exchange of six Me 262s lost. Google Analytics is a web analytics service provided by Google Ireland Limited ("Google"). US Air Force (af.mil): It acted as a long-range escort and could cover great distances to protect bombers on their missions. Follow. North American P-51 Mustang - Wikipedia observed hits all over the wings and fuselage.. The German Luftwaffe Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (Swallow) was the first operational jet fighter and appeared in air combat towards the end of World War Two. BAT OUT OF HELL: The Me-163 Komet, by Don Hollway Tuskegee Airmen Edward C. Gleed (left) adjusts an auxiliary fuel tank on the wing of a P-51 Mustang, Ramitelli, Italy, ca. Let's find out! All quotes listed here are from the Wiki article referenced above. Amazing facts about Messerschmitt Me262; The World's First Operational 4 x 20mm long-barrel Hispano-Suiza cannons in wings. But each pilots skill and resolve, On each bomber crew is depending. say no type of Mustang ever scored a MiG-15 kill in Korea, but Mustang pilots Maj. John Yingling and Col. Joseph Rogers claim they shot down MiG-15s. Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. Two seconds later, I saw another piece hit close to the first piece. film, was eventually credited with the destruction of two Me 262s. Discussion in 'Aircraft' started by Sinster, May 7, 2003. OPTIONAL: External Bombload of up to 1,200lbs. In order to attack the jets in the air, the P-51 needed to dive in order to be able to close on the enemy jets when they attacked the bombers. Many were shot down while landing taking off, but even that taken into account the kill/loss ratio is around 6:1. claims P-51s shot down MiG-15s in South Korea, but reverse seems more likely, It only takes a minute to sign up. Mai 1941 or Mustangs shot down early MiG-3 propeller fighters (??). Only veteran or lucky German pilots could survive in a Me-109. [emphasis added]. Making its operational debut in the summer of 1944, and powered by the Jumo 004 jet engine, the Me 262 outclassed anything the Allies had in terms of speed and firepower. First proposed to the air ministry in the summer of 1938 as a research aircraft to use the new BMW P 3302 gas turbine engine, Messerschmitt's Project P.1065 was pursued by a design team led by Woldemar Voigt. $21.87 $ 21. Additionally Uffz. P-51 vs Me 262: Data Comparison - aerocorner.com But beyond its aesthetics, the P51 boasts impressive speed, a remarkable range, and an impressive armament that includes six .50 caliber machine guns. defensive tactics were applied, with very precise timing of each There is a massive scope there to unlock more speed with . Oberfahnrich Russel. out. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. History Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for historians and history buffs. This was made using the World War II flight simulator IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles series. Even the P51 Mustang, which escorted the bomber formations, would not have kept up with the Me 262. Browse more videos. the east-west runway and the taxiing ship got into position for a formation Wrote Brown in his after-action report: I pulled up at him in a fifteen degree climb and fired three long bursts at him from 2,000 feet at eight oclock to him. Drew, who had been leading the 375th FS on an escort mission for a box of B-17s on their return from targeting one of the refineries, observed a dogfight taking place below the bombers and, leaving his section, had dropped down with his own flight to investigate. Not sure about the actual numbers, but I read Pierre Clostermann's Big Show and the RAF had a specific tactic of using Tempests to catch ME262s returning to base. Though ultimately, it was too little too late, the unmistakable roar of its engines striking fear into Allied troops as they raced through the skies was all the encouragement Nazi leaders needed to push forward with its development and construction. On March 18th, 1945, 37 Me 262s of JG7 intercepted a force of 1,221 bombers and 632 escorting fighters. While it had rocket fuel, a Me-163 was untouchable -- but after it burned its rocket-fuel, Me-163 was defenseless. Messerschmitt Me 262 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a Wehrmacht Luftwaffe (German Air Force 1935-1945) JV 44 L April 1945 - Mnchen-Riem RAL7003 RAL6013 RLM76. The all-important climb rate for a P51D sat at 3200ft per minute whilst the Spitfire could climb at an impressive 3650ft per minute. the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific Ah, the age-old question. Google uses the Personal Data collected to track and examine the use of this site, compile reports on its activities and share them with other services developed by Google. The P-51 could only achieve speeds of up to 437 miles per hour. Report. 1:12. 1Lt However, this event was tempered by the loss of three more jets to Mustangs on November 4. An Me 262 appeared out of the cloud and dived vertically into the ground. mission of any strength was not mounted until the 7th, when a formation of Me If attacked by an Me 262, the P-51 could easily turn and maneuver inside the enemy jet, placing itself in a position to meet the jet head on or to get in a quick burst of gunfire if the enemy overshot. This was probably Leutnant Koberts [ref: Ziegler, McLaren]. state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for Is there a table somewhere that lists the air-to-air Me 262 kills by Allied combat aircraft? This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. while laminar-winged Mustang was designed to fly optimally at 400+MPH. bubbletop vs razorback canopy : r/AviationHistory 2023 Defense Media Network. [ref: Caygill]. I have found twelve pairs of duplicate Werknummers, i.e. Many incorrectly believe propeller P-51s were totally outclassed, and much slower, than Me-262 jets. OPTIONAL: its radiator inlet/outlet provided net thrust, and its streamlined airframe had extremely low drag. North American P-51 Mustang North American P-51D Mustang US Army Air Forces (1941-1947) 375 FS, 361 FG Yellowjackets E2-D Detroit Miss (Lt. Urban L. "Ben" Drew) 1944 World War 2 - Bottisham Misunderstandings about Twin Mustang was it 1st Lt. Earl R. Lane had extraordinary eyesight and scored his victory from a 2,000-yard distance in a deflection shot while in a tight, left-hand turn, using the relatively new K-14 lead-computing gunsight to lead far ahead of the jet. 13:12. 3 years ago. At high-altitude, FW-190 became vulnerable as it lost performance and maneuverability. as later marks became much faster but handling worsened. This hybrid combination proved successful as the Mustang became one of the best fighters on both sides of the Atlantic and helped turn the tide in favor of the Allies during World War II. (B) 2 x 20mm Hispano cannons and 4 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. The Me 262 was also faster and more innovative than the P-51. Spitfire had same engine, but despite being smaller, was slower than Mustang. Both involve healthy jets, and American ace pilots. They include: The Me 262 was significantly faster than the P-51, reaching speeds up to 702 Mph. or 22 Jets of JG7 got airborne to attack the bombers steam.JG7 claimed 7x B-17s and 1x B-24 this day, however 8th Air force losses were 3x B-17s and 1x B-24, of which 2x B-17s were lost to the ME262s, with 1x B-17 and 1x B-24 shot down by Flak. Me 262 vs P-51 Mustang : Europe 1944-45 - books.google.com IMO it is hard to compare the P-51 and teh Bf-109, simply because they were designed at least until the K variant of the Bf-109 for generaly different purpouses. OPTIONAL: External Bomb load of up to 1,200lb. One of Browns fellow airmen, Capt. (A) 8 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"]. (#D144,938 in June 4, 1946). (LA Times)] During the war, the P-51 established a reputation as a fierce air-to-air combat fighter and as an aircraft capable of blasting ships, trains, and enemy targets in Western Europe. intercept enemy bombers attacking oil targets. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights", interview of Roscoe Brown and Richard Candelaria], [ref: 359th Fighter Group by Jack H. Smith], "Mr. Yingling is a World War II veteran of the Navy and began his Air Its climb-rate was phenomenal, twice as much as a P-51H or F-82, The Aviation Geek Club and The Aviation Geek Club logo are Dario Leone's registered marks. May 2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], [ 07. Feb 1, 2010 Thread starter #7 Zniperguy114 Airman 67 0 It is the only rocket-powered fighter aircraft ever to have been . But there is historical curiosity at stake :-). I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter., A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. Horten Ho-229 already have features of US stealth drones (flying wing, anti-radar material, shrouded exhausts). Faircount Media Group. November 1940: de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito (Prototyp) Martin B-26 Marauder (40-1361) 29. [ 07. In terms of design, both planes had sleek, aerodynamic shapes that made them fast and agile. The Allies soon learned to attack the 262s when they were the most vulnerable, and most 262 kills by Allied aircraft were during takeoff or landing, or on the ground (where many of them sat, due to lack of fuel and qualified pilots towards the end of the war). But which fighter was better? fast jets in air-to-air battles, we knew from our simulated Reported by some sources to have lost his life that day, Ambs actually walked away from the experience and lived a long life (he would live to see history buffs build and fly an Me 262 replica in a new century), but he never fought again. they knew they would be completely outnumbered and [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Doesn't analytically integrate sensibly let alone correctly. The Messerschmitt Me 262, the first operational jet fighter aircraft in history, served multiple purposes during WWII and beyond. Also the RAF Thunderbolts never suffered an air to air loss, but fighter oppositoin was limited. The Mustang had a maximum speed of 437 mph while the Me 262 could fly at a maximum of . Report. Around 1,200 Me-262's were destroyed, by strafing, bombing etc etc.. Anyway this seems like a popular question. The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed as a multi-role aircraft and could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. 24 x Air-to-Air Unguided High-Explosive Rockets. rev2023.3.3.43278. . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Survivors: Messerschmitt Me 262 - Germany's Jet Fighter In some cases both USAAF & RAF claim the same Me262, and in one case it is not clear which type of aircraft the squadron (RAF 403) was using, hence the fractions. Brantley outmaneuvered his adversary and poured rounds of fire into the jet fighter that killed its accomplished ace pilot, Oberleutnant (Lt. Col.) Ernst Wrner. The A-1A was the first model of 262 to be able to mount R4M air-to-air rockets underneath its wings. . Airplanes armament and equipment. 111711, Wright Field (1945) PVT.Snafu. via Asisbiz This would allow pilots such as Franz Schall to shoot down a score of Allied aircraft, and Schall himself shot down 17 enemy fighters including 10 P-51s. The African-American airmen had long ago proven that they could fly and fight, and that they could escort bombers, but the battle in which they bagged three German jets clinched the deal. But theres one area where the P-51 shines: range. the second Me 262 when he was about 1,000ft off the ground. The war against the jets intensified in November as the Luftwaffe increased its sortie rate with the Me 262. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? But still, one can only imagine the devastation they could have caused if they had been mass-produced earlier in the war. P-51 Mustang Replica With Big-Block Chevy Power - Dailymotion All data presented is for entertainment purposes and should not be used operationally. The P-47 Thunderbolt? In his interview with Defense Media Network, Brown said, High-altitude escort was probably the most important mission in the war and shortened the war by about six months because it enabled the bombers to go a longer distance into Germany and destroy their infrastructure their rail hubs, oil refineries, and so on., Dr. Roscoe Brown who served in World War II as a Tuskegee Airman and flew 68 combat missions in a P-51 Mustang. defensive maneuver. Hubert Lange, a Me 262 pilot, said: "the Messerschmitt Me 262's most dangerous opponent was the British Hawker Tempestextremely fast at low altitudes, highly manoeuvrable and heavily armed." Still, after a war in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, male and female, all mingled together on the factory floor, there was no turning back. MiGs, and they were so much faster. Luftwaffe fighter arms nemesis. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. [ref: Roscoe Brown, Candelaria], Actually, lack of trained pilots and fuel was more of a problem than airworthy Me-262s. US F-51 pilots trained against US jets and mentioned that scoring a hit on a MiG-15 would be very difficult: '", [ref: "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" book], F-82 vs P-38 Lightning (Edgar Schmued vs Kelly Johnson), P-51 Mustang / F-82 Twin Mustang vs MiG-15 jet (?? So which aircraft is better? how in 1945 surviving German pilots continued to fight even though Twin Mustang was ~80MPH faster, its long range would've allowed it to escort B-29 Superfortress bombers. There were four He was one of almost a thousand African-American fliers known as the Tuskegee Airmen who overcame discrimination, mastered the challenge of piloting a combat aircraft, and served their country by doing battle in skies high over the Third Reich. Which Allied aircraft scored the most air-to-air kills against the Me 262 in WWII? It depends on what youre looking for. WinbiTV. Me-262's nose was packed with large cannons and machine guns for destroying bombers, Messerschmitt Me 262 Vs P 51 Mustang - Margaret Wiegel Browse more videos. The Messerschmitt Me-262 Was the Harbinger of a New Era in - HistoryNet Blitz VI. home. Google Fonts is a service used to display font styles operated by Google Ireland Limited and serves to integrate such content into its pages. P 51 Mustang's guard the bombers, Their crews call 'our little friends'. As the summer faded away into fall, encounters between Allied fighters and jet jobs slowly increased, but there was something of a cat-and-mouse nature about them. [ref: Ziegler for 515MPH]. ground on his back at about a 60-degree angle. They came over the top of Joe, and The German response was the construction of a "flak lane" of over 150 emplacements of the 20 mm Flakvierling quadruple autocannon batteries at Rheine-Hopsten to protect the approaches. JeuxVideo.com. @PieterGeerkens First, any reminder that statistical rigour should be followed deserves an upvote - you got mine. Discord - https://discord.gg/CVrJQ8aTwitter - Twitter.com/TJ3GamingTwitch - Twitch.com/TJ3GamingInstagram - Instagram.com/TJ3Gaming he took a lucky shot at them.'". Playing next. wrong, since Schmued had idea in 1940 before those were designed. Follow. Siegfried Schubert claimed one B-17 of the 92nd Bomb Group (Lt. Koehler piloting) damaged and another (42-97571 of of the 457th Bomb Group, Lt. Winifred Pugh piloting) destroyed. while later Nowotnys crackling voice was heard over the radio. Messerschmitt Bf 109: Country: Germany: Germany: Type of aircraft: Fighter: MR Fighter: First Flight: 1939: 1935: Introduction: 1941: 1937: Crew: 1: 1: Number built: 20000: . They did not intercept the jet, but instead flew towards the Me 262 and Ar 234 base at Hopsten air base. 1x Packard (Rolls Royce) V-1650-7 Merlin. The Me 262 could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. Personal Data collected: NonePlace of processing: Ireland Privacy PolicyOpt Out. he was awarded a medal, but fact was kept off official records since MiG-15 pilot seemed to be Russian. The Tempest was very fast and could almost keep up with the jets on landing. The P-51D Mustang? Rogers achieved a rare MiG-15 jet Buttner successfully bailed out of his \"burning\" (according to historian Manfred Boehme) ME 262 over Kiel-Holtenau after being shot up by Mustangs, possibly the ME262 in this clip though the jet does not appear to be on fire (perhaps there was a fire in the cockpit?). Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. Me 262 & P-51B, Revell 03711 (2020) - Scalemates Almost immediately, the pilot bailed out from about 24,500 feet. aircraft, which blew up just as it lifted off the ground. March 1945. Tuskegee Airmen vs. Me-262s | Defense Media Network Just then I saw the canopy go flying off P-47 didn't have a propeller cone like FW-190 or Sea Fury had to reduce drag. All rights reserved. Did the United States taxpayer fund the development of China's backbone fighter plane? I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. This Google Analytics integration anonymizes your IP address. degrees deflection at 300 yards and my bullets were just hitting the tail

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